P0717 – Turbine shaft speed (TSS) sensor -no signal
By (Contact Me)
Last Updated 2016-05-31
ASE Master Tech
| Trouble Code | Fault Location | Probable Cause |
|---|---|---|
| P0717 | Turbine shaft speed (TSS) sensor -no signal | Wiring, TSS sensor, ECM/PCM!TCM |
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What Does Code P0717 Mean?
In the modern automatic transmission, most functions have ceased to be driven purely hydraulically. At its core, it still uses hydraulic pressure to engage and disengage gear positions, but electronic sensors and actuators have taken over much of the everyday operation of the system. The transmission control module (TCM) may or may not be separate from the engine control module (ECM), and is responsible for the operation of the automatic transmission, including torque converter operation, pressure regulation, gear positions, and self-monitoring.
Some of the principal sensors that the TCM uses to control and monitor automatic transmission operation are the input and output speed sensors, as well as the engine speed sensor (RPM), from the ECM. Aside from using these sensors to control clutch and brake pressure, engagement, and timing, it can use this information to determine the condition of the brakes and clutches and confirm the operation of the transmission. For example, if the TCM commands torque converter lockup, it would expect to see RPM and TSS (turbine speed sensor) to be equal. Similarly, if the TCM commands 3rd Gear, it can calculate that output shaft speed should be a certain percentage of TSS speed. If there are differences, usually lower speed than expected, the TCM would flag this as a fault in the transmission.
The TCM also monitors the turbine speed sensor itself for problems, which it would expect to find in a certain range and change speeds at a certain rate. If the TCM detects problems with the TSS or TSS circuit, it will set a diagnostic trouble code (DTC) in memory and command the ECM to illuminate the check engine light. Usually, in the case of DTC P0717, “Input/Turbine Speed Sensor No Signal,” this refers to an unstable or intermittent signal, perhaps no signal at all, depending on the automaker’s specific programming. Additionally, DTC P0700, “Transmission Control System Malfunction,” may be set, simply an informational code regarding a problem with the TCM.
What are the common causes of code P0717 ?
Depending on year, make, and model, DTC P0717 may have number of causes. Here are some of the most common.
- 2000-2002 General Motors – Some vehicles in the GM lineup suffered a problem of poor electrical connection between the TCM and TSS, particularly in the 20-pin connector at the transmission. A taut or poor-routed wire harness could pull on the connector, leading to loose internal connections and electrical failure, sometimes intermittent. The failure mode for these particular vehicles put hydraulic line pressure to maximum, which would result in harsh shifting. (Buick Century, LeSabre, Park Avenue Regal, Rendevous; Chevrolet Cavalier, Impala, Malibu, Monte Carlo, Venture, Lumina; Oldsmobile Alero, Aurora, Intrigue, Silhouette; Pontiac Bonneville, Grand Am, Grand Prix, Montana, Sunfire, Aztek)
- 2007-2009 Saturn Outlook – These vehicles suffered a weak internal transmission component, which would break and result in a number of transmission DTCs, including P0716, P0717, P0776, P0777, P2714, P2715, or P02723. Because of the wave plate failure, possibly in combination with the failure mode, these transmissions would suffer from reverse gear lockout or slipping or harsh engagement in 3rd or 5th Gear.
What are the symptoms of code P0717 ?
Aside from the CEL, and depending on specific TCM programming, a failure in the TSS circuit may be accompanied by harsh shifting, locking out certain gears, poor performance, or poor fuel economy. You may notice no drivability problems at all, but this is not common.
How do you troubleshoot code P0717 ?
Because this DTC generally describes a circuit problem, you will need to use a DVOM to check for problems in the TSS circuit between the sensor and the TCM. Most TSS are mounted on the transmission housing, which makes the easily accessible, but also makes their connectors easily damaged, either physically or by water intrusion. Also, it does one good to note that most TSS are of the three-wire type, including 5 V reference, ground, and signal wires. The TSS senses a reluctor ring, which it uses to send a speed signal to the TCM.
- Check the TSS connector for corrosion, water intrusion, or damaged pins. Any of these faults can cause excessive resistance or an open circuit, interrupting or distorting the speed signal. Repair as necessary.
- With the key in the “On” position, use a DVOM (digital volt-ohm meter) to back-probe the TSS connector and check for 5 V reference and 0 V to ground, on their respective circuits. If you note any problems, recheck the same at the TCM. Two-wire TSS can be tested by back-probing at the TCM and test driving the vehicle, checking for voltage to increase with engine speed. Continuity checks should be done with TCM and TSS disconnected, to avoid damaging the TCM. Repair any faults as needed.
- If there are no circuit problems, you may need more advanced diagnostic tools to approach sensor diagnosis, such as a digital oscilloscope or specialized component tester. Some DMM (digital multi-meter) offer such advanced functionality. The best way to test the TSS is by back-probing the connector, at the TCM, and going on a test drive. Compare engine RPM, usually the crankshaft position sensor (CKP) with TSS, and you should be able to see the signal to increase and decrease with engine rpm. If you see any problems with the signal, such as dropouts or changes in voltage, recheck the wiring harness before condemning the sensor.
- This may be an intermittent problem and may require multiple diagnosis attempts before the fault can be positively identified. Be patient and methodical to have the best chance of discovering the fault.
Codes Related to P0717
- DTC P0715 Input/Turbine Speed Sensor Circuit Malfunction
- DTC P0716 Input/Turbine Speed Sensor Circuit Range/Performance
- DTC P0717 Input/Turbine Speed Sensor Circuit No Signal
- DTC P0718 Input/Turbine Speed Sensor Circuit Intermittent
- DTC P0720 Output Speed Sensor Circuit Malfunction
- DTC P0721 Output Speed Sensor Range/Performance
- DTC P0722 Output Speed Sensor No Signal
- DTC P0723 Output Speed Sensor Intermittent
BAT Team Discussions for P0717
- Daewoo Leganza 2.2L Auto. Won't shift in D. Only fault code is U3F00 ???
Thanks, Input and output shaft sensors or signal failure problems should throw fault codes P0717 & P0722. I have the workshop manual for this car with all the wiring diagrams, and ohms values to check etc, so i'll give your recommendations a try.... - 06 impala
06 impala 3.5 95000 mi no add ons. Trouble free car until recently the trans shifts hard in all gears. This is intermittently. Might go weeks with normal shifts. Shut the engine off for a couple seconds and its ok for a while. Scanner shows P0700 Transmission Control System (malfunction ... - transaxle harness connector
Is there a harness connector plug repair kit available for a 2006 impala. That would be the external harness. I think the female pin is loose fitting causing intermittent p0717....
My engine Lite went off on my hunday sonata and it has two codes p0700 and p0717
Tony-
P0700 simply refers to a transmission control module problem, so you can ignore that one. P0717 refers to the transmission input speed sensor. This is located right on top of the transmission and should be easily accessible. Check that the connector is properly seated and there is no obvious damage to the harness. If the harness is good, you can check for resistance across the sensor terminals. If you have an open circuit, just replace the sensor. (We should have a troubleshooting article up soon.)
-Ben
Hi I have a saab 93 aero 2.8 t v6 2006 with 6 speed auto box and I’m struggling, car has been driving lovely until I didn’t see quite a large pool of water I was doing about 40 mph and shortly after gearbox malfunction light came on limited performance had it scanned several times p0717, P0722,p0700 no signal? I’m devastated as I’m pretty sure it’s 1 thing causing all issues but finding parts is difficult especially when your unsure of what you actually need if any parts at all as it’s to coincidental not to be water related, if you have any advice for me at all I’d be massively grateful, thank you
Antony-
I would say you might have a problem with the transmission input speed sensor or its circuit. Water is a pain when it gets into electrical systems, and speed sensor signals are easy to foul up. I would start with finding the speed sensor connector and using a hair dryer to dry it out thoroughly. Do the same thing with the transmission controller connector (hopefully water hasn’t gotten into the controller). I’m sorry, I can’t find a diagram to show you the location of the sensor in question.
-Ben
Thank you for your reply the quest continues il just persevere with it and hope for the best maybe lady luck with shine a light haha, all the best
#375 SAAB 9-3 93 2006 ’06 TRANSMISSION AUTO TRANS COMPUTER TCM MODULE 55559045
That’s the tcm in question above and have cleaned the main plug in but the plug to sensors in box is directly joined to box and is an absolute pain in the neck to remove it won’t budge past selector shaft and I’m worried of causing more damage if that’s not my problem,, utter nightmare but I’m not going to give up as Im positive it’s just a simple short from water or possibly dry solder in tcm unit possibly from thermal shock if that’s possible? Thank you for reply
Antony-
Yeah, rust can be a problem, and I’d bet that’s what let the water in there in the first place. The only thing is, if you can’t get the water out, the electrical connection will corrode and you’ll be even worse off =/
-Ben
HI, my 2008 hyundai sonata has a speed sensor needed to be replaced. My question is that how long can I still drive it before I get it fixed within 2 weeks. Thanks!
the fault code is 177 Renault lagauna 2004 2lt
hi
i have chevy uplander 2007 .
i’m getting error number po717.
where is the input speed sensor and how can i replace it ?
the error is : input speed sensor circuit low voltage
the engine light 3 times turn on and then off after 2-3 days
what is the original part number that i have to replace ..
thanks
So this is about a $26 sensor, which I have a napa part number for. The part number is 6006216. However the location is a bit more dificult. You have to remove the transmission case cover to access it. The input side is on the front of the transmission where the clutch and flywheel are located. It should be mounted on top of the input shaft.
My car gear slips while reach speed 120
Further check found P0717 no signal
Just replaced sensor cost 150dh
No work ing perfect
The code PO717 come on but the trans shifts find no problems is it the TCM or the speed control sensor on the trans>\?? and does anyone know if the speed control is on the out side of the trans or inside?? post or email answer please to [email protected]
Hi Mark, the p0717 code description is low signal, so the vss, or transmission speed sensor would be at fault. I looked on alldata for this sensor location. It is located on the outside of the transmission casing, towards the back of the transmission, on top of the output shaft. I know the input sensor is at fault, however, it uses the v.s.s or vehicle speed sensor to check the speed of the input/output shaft. Hope this helps on your quest.
My truck is has codes PO175 and PO717 Turbine Speed Sensor… WHERE IS IT????
I’ve Googled the heck out of this but cannot find the schematic or location.
Is this something for the professionals only?
Speed sensor usually mounted outside the transmission. Turbine is input, so the sensor should be toward the front of the transmission. I’m not sure if this image helps:
I need help locating my input turbine shaft speed sensor on a 2008 Nissan Titan 5.6 le I have been searching the day’s and can’t seem too get any help please if possible could I help me